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DISCLAIMER: This transcript is provided on an "as is" best efforts basis and is based on a MiniDisc recording made where speech was not always legible because of noise in the room. Any errors made in transcribing what was actually said are mine, and not those of the speakers quoted, and may include spelling mistakes, incorrect names and other minor typo's. Readers should also bear in mind that statements read in cold print can often convey a completely different meaning from that intended by the speaker and perceived by the original audience.
		Question: Can I also ask.. Your portrayal of Gimli is rather different from the Gimli in the book - rather more humorous shall we say! Was that your idea mainly or was it mostly from the script and you added to it? John Rhys-Davies: Tolkien himself thought the book was unfilmable. That's why, I believe, he sold the film rights for £100. There are huge problems in making a rescension (?) of it for the cinema. You've got to select, you've got to edit, and you've also got the problem that because it's not constructed like a film you have to get some measure of what makes a film work, to work for you. A cynic might say 'Lord of the Rings' is about something bad happening and then there's a fight, and then something worse happens and then there's a bigger battle, and then something really, really bad happens, and there's a huge battle, and then it is unbelievably bad, and then there's this enormous battle. You can't manipulate the tension unless you relieve the tension at certain points - you can't have unrelieved tension. We took a very deliberate decision to try and use the dwarf as a lightening rod to discharge some of that tension. It would have been possible to make him as serious as any of the other characters although I thought that the great charm of Gimli is that he doesn't actually realise that he's small. There are times when running across the mountains with the elf and the ranger that it does dawn on him that short legs are perhaps not the best things in a cross-country runner. We did take a deliberate choice with making Gimli a more humorous character, but I thought I could do that and at the same time keep the gravitas when it is needed, and the authority when it is needed, and the power ... and the ferocity. He is a ferocious little devil. There are many wonderful things about him. One of the things I like about him is that in some ways he is the best and the worst of us. He represents suspicion and paranoia and jealousy. At the same time he represents that absolute courage when faced with the need to battle evil. He does not fear death 'though he is brave enough to understand that when the odds are overwhelming the odds are that you're not going to come out of it. But you go into it anyway because it's the only way to live. It's very interesting... after that first encounter with The Ring when he thinks that he can resolve the whole problem simply by smashing his axe down on it. And he discovers the power of The Ring, because he knows that anything that can break an axe like that and throw him flat on his back is a pretty malign force. After that moment he is never tempted by The Ring. His behaviour is worsened by The Ring, as all their behaviour is. The Ring exerts a malign influence on everything that touches it. It's more significant that Aragorn and Gimli when they are separated from Frodo actually act wonderfully nobly together, 'though they have tried to behave well together in the initial Fellowship, but The Ring destroys Boromir for instance. I won't talk about Part 3 but The Ring does have a huge and dangerous and fatal dowager to it. Gimli recognises it and will fight against it. He's never tempted by it. After that first encounter Gimli knows that The Ring is not for him. (FX: as Gimli:) That said, it's not for bloody pointy-ears either. He goes along very largely because he doesn't want an advantage to befall the elves who he regards with great suspicion and mistrust. It is only really after meeting Galadriel and falling completely in love with her, and as his experience with Legolas develops and the rivalry turns into a friendly rivalry, into a fierce partnership, and at the end of course to a huge friendship. That's an interesting shape. So many of us end up isolating ourselves with bigotry, anger, hatred, and all that sort of thing. I certainly find myself doing that. It's nice to see that other thing - the movement from paranoia and bigotry into a shared experience and a love of a different culture. That said, it is the love for other things that have the same thing in common. There is nothing in common between the Urak Hai and the dwarf. There is more in common between the elf and the dwarf than anything else. Question: You wanted to play Denethor in 'The Lord of the Rings'. Peter Jackson cast you as Gimli so how did you get familiar with this totally different character? John: Blame Peter Jackson! That's what I say - blame Peter Jackson anyway just for the hell of it! Yes, I was a little surprised. I read for Denethor. I did realise that what he was just looking for was a reading, basically to make sure that the actor he was casting had two legs to walk on and no obvious scars, and obviously with me he decided what he saw needed 8 hours of prosthetic on to make it look any good anyway. I was surprised and shocked, and I really didn't want to do it because I knew what was involved. You spend thirty years of your life trying to become recognised as an actor then you do three major films taking up a huge amount of time and end up covering yourself in a large piece of silicon. That doesn't really make sense - it just shows you that actors are that stupid they'll do anything! That said, I don't think I'd have done Denethor as well as it was done. Wonderful performance! And mine would have no humour in it either. Aha! I can be serious! Question: How was it as one of the tallest guys on the set to look up to the others as Gimli? John: Yes, it was an essay in humility, wasn't it! As I like to say, I spent a lot of time on my knees. And that was after getting the job! A very interesting experience because actually I am the tallest member of The Fellowship, and to be the almost smallest, although of course I tower above the hobbits. But then, who doesn't?! It just goes to show that no matter how well prepared you are for parts they do sometimes take you completely by surprise. Question: Just to go back to the topic of Peter Jackson... After having worked with him for several years just imagine that he approached you just to slope off and have some fun, that he planned some weekend shooting only, low to no budget, some gore bloody movie. Would you be interested? John: Well I like to say this, if Peter Jackson phoned - and this is an indication of the quality of his personality and direction - if Peter Jackson called any member of the cast and crew up and said 'Listen John, Mount Ruapehu is erupting right at the moment and it's a big volcano and we could really use some great footage from that in part 3. Now there's some risk to life involved. There's lava flows and those blasts are killing people thirty or forty miles away but I think we can get the footage' we would all say 'Alright PJ. We'll be there! We'll be there!' and that's a tribute to him as a man and as a director. That said, as you may or may not know... am I allowed to say this? Oh let's pretend I am! You know Peter Jackson is doing a remake of 'King Kong' for his next project. So everyone who went back to New Zealand to do pickups this year from Ian McKellen to the humblest hobbit and even humbler dwarf, everytime we went on the set we all went... (FX: does impression of King Kong). So PJ caught me out one day and he said 'John, are you really willing to go back into all that makeup and hot costume for a really long shoot with absolutely no words to say' and I went... 'I think not actually, Peter. I don't think the back is up to it at the moment'. I can imagine nothing better than working with Peter Jackson again. And if I never do I shall be eternally grateful to him, as all of us will be. This is not just a great director, this is a great and good man and I wish him so well. Question: John, you have something in common with Sir Richard Burton and Sir Anthony Hopkins, Gary Oldman and Catherine Zeta-Jones, and that is that you all come from Wales. Have you any thoughts on why such a small part of the world produces such great actors? John: (FX: affects strong Welsh accent) Well young Catherine, I taught her everything she knows! Every time I see Tony Hopkins and ask him how he's doing he says 'Oh, not too badly. They haven't found me out yet!' There is a theory, it isn't my theory in particular, but there is a theory that one of the reasons that the Welsh produce the number of very good actors, and that's not the entire list I have to tell you, is that everyone had to go to church and the sermons were generally in Welsh. Those of you that study Elvish will know that the Welsh and the Elvish languages are very closely linked. Tolkien did know his Welsh. Certain languages are intrinsically ugly in the sounds that they make, and certain languages are musical and magical. Italien libretto for opera for instance are just naturally meliifluous. I don't want to knock 'Das Zauberflöte' but the magic flute is OK, libretto wise but I'd sooner hear I think 'The Marriage of Figaro' in Italian. Welsh is an extraordinary language because it has a sense of drama in it. I can only do a few lines of it - 'The Lord's Prayer' in Welsh - which was said to me by an old Welsh minister who'd actually christened my mother, married my mother to my father, and christened me. He was a preacher in this chapel for fifty-three years, would you believe! I remember him doing 'The Lords Prayer' and it began like this (FX: reads Welsh). It was so intrinsically powerful, incantatory, commanding and dramatic, and I suspect that that element in theatre actors is something that impresses into our psyches very early on. I suspect that was certainly one of the things that worked for me. Although my father, who I always thought had not the slightest dramatic talent whatsoever, did tell me once that I inherited my 'genius' from him! 'Oh why is that, dad?', I said. 'Well you may not know this but the very first broadcast of 'Under Milk Wood' in Africa was done in Tanganyika in 1954 and I was one of the people in it'. That's an odd piece of historical note, and apparently that's absolutely true. That said, the recording has long been lost and we're probably grateful for that. Other than that, I think that all of us, regardless of whether you're Welsh or Spanish or Morroccan or German, there is in all of us a need to play a role. I think that's why a lot of you are here today. The great thing about it is that the other persona always has better words than you can come up with spontaneously when you're put on the spot by people. That other persona is a different shape - is taller, is shorter, is far more sexy... and I think that one of the reasons why we love film and drama is that in some way it personifies our dream and helps us go home to continue that dream in our ordinary lives. I'm being very wishy-washy about this, and not very precise, am I! I think most of us live best in the world of the imagination. To watch Catherine Zeta-Jones or Anthony Hopkins play these characters in some way stimulates our imaginations. I've never asked this question before, it's only just occurred to me now - how many people have actually dreamt about Hannibal Lecter? Good! I would have thought that Hannibal would have been a creature of nightmare and yet such incredible charm that Tony brings to it. I'm awfully glad that I'm an actor. I also have this theory about actors, that basically, except for the very beautiful ones, except for the two or three people of every generation that are just breathtakingly beautiful - the Cary Grant's - my theory is that the rest of the actors are disabled people, or disfigured people, trying to command attention in a way that they can manipulate rather than be noticed for their inadequacies. An extraordinary number of actors I know have got strange deformities which they're very shy about. I think that need to distract for some real or imagined deformity is something that motivates a lot of young actors. Whether they survive or not is a completely different thing. The passion that actors have for changing their faces, from plastic surgery.. but then I suppose all of us are going to do that. I should get rid of that damned chin at some time. Anyway, sorry these ramblings are of no interest to you whatsoever, so next question... Question: I played a little role in a Dutch film a few years ago and I can remember when the last day has come I felt really sad. How you felt when you knew it was the last shooting day for 'Lord of the Rings'? John: Two things. First of all, actually shooting Gimli increasingly has become intolerable because I have this huge physical reaction to the makeup. The penultimate day, the second day before the last day, I was in such a state that I really didn't think that I could get through the day without ripping it off because it was just driving me mad. So I wasn't sure I could get through the next day. I wasn't sure I could let the make-up be put on me. So I went to the doctor and I got some valium and I overdosed on valium. I had four aspirin, four ibuprofen and some antihistamine. and that was the way I actually got through the last day of filming. Of course it had worn off by the end. And then there was that terrible moment when you realise 'Gosh! That is actually the last time I'm going to be in a studio with these people' and then you think 'This could be, apart from the premiere in New Zealand, this could be the last time I ever go back to New Zealand'. You always make promises to yourself, 'I'll be back there. I'll be back in Spain next year. I love the place so much', and suddenly you realise fifteen years have gone past and you've never been back to Spain. So I realised 'I don't want this to happen' and I went out and I found a small olive grove in New Zealand that was for sale. Not too expensive. So ten acres of New Zealand is mine. I don't want to be pushy or anything like that but in a few years time, and you'll appreciate it takes a wee while for those little olives to actually get up there... a hundred years or so... when you see some dwarf olive oil being offered from New Zealand I don't mind saying it would be a very good buy on your table. It'll be a real wrench. We look around and we see... there were people who met on this production, who had babies on this production, got divorced on this production, and the children are growing up all through these incredible films. It is a huge wrench. I am the least sentimental of people, I like to think, but there was a big lump in my throat when we finished that last day of shooting. I think there'll be an even bigger lump after that final premiere when we all look at each other and realise we'll probably never be all together again. But that said, there's always another film. You know actors have a great belief: we're often asked 'What's your favourite film?', my answer is 'The next one'. John: Ah, that's it. Apparently I've bored you all enough now so I'm going to say 'Thank you very much for having me'. What a joy you are as Tolkien fans in particular. I know a little bit about fans because I talk to many Indiana Jones and Star Trek people. I think that the intelligence of 'The Lord of the Rings' fans is really quite unsurpassed, and you're marvellous, marvellous people. I'm glad that the film and the book has brought you together to form these wonderful social contacts that you've done and I hope that they live with you for the rest of your life as you indeed will live with all of us. Thank you! A transcript of John's second panel at Ring*Con will appear here at a later date Thanks to Reiner Harth who assisted me at Ring*Con 2003 Click here to find out about RingCon 2004 Back to page 1 of this transcript Ring*Con 2003 Reports and Panel Transcripts Main Index
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Email: ian@iansmith.co.uk